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Post by johnny on May 2, 2024 9:52:28 GMT
"Solid but unspectular" is how I would describe this...On the positives there's nothing I dislike (no Bjorn vocals too. I wonder if there's a link?)
LAYLOM is an excellent track. A hybrid between a disco floor filler and hymn with lyrics about sexual angst.
I like The Piper too. The rest are okay but a bit bland. TWTIA to my ears is not the classic others think it is. The album really could have done with the inclusion of Elaine at the expense of one of the several average tracks.
Its predecessor album, Voulez Vous had a mainly upbeat feel. The successor, The Visitors are much darker feel. By being very eclectic the albums lacks cohesion and could be a cimpilation album - even one by different artists.
Overall ⭐️⭐️⭐️ 1/2
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Post by bjorenny on May 2, 2024 10:08:45 GMT
At one time I would have given 5 stars. Now it's 4 and a half. I find Andante Andante slightly boring, although I can still appreciate its beauty, and I think some of the songs have 1 verse too many (HNY, possibly The Piper and LAYLOM) and I also like the title track less than I used to. It sounds too nursery rhyme and the sexiness of the VV era 12 months before is nowhere to be seen.
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Post by foreverfan on May 2, 2024 11:46:53 GMT
It's funny how time changes thoughts , when this album came out best thing ever , well since VV....
I never really thought OLS was nothing more than average, likeable but.....the same for TWOFD, bit of an anti climax ....for me...those thoughts haven't changed
Super Trouper, had the benefit of being a big hit, but a little twee now..
TWTIA.. amazing at the time until I concentrated to hard and the drum beat now takes away the shine
OAOAO.. always liked ABBAs rockier side... should have been a double A side with LAYLOM on 7 inch...
Andante.. above average ..just
Me And I ..quirky
HNY... as we all know dated with that 89 ....
The Piper... a favourite then and now...
LAYLOM... enough said .. top 3 favourite...
As for those added extras... always liked Elaine, GGG... should that have been on VV... POYWS... in a way glad it didn't make the cut, but ok.......
It's an album I surprisingly don't play through much these days, 44 years ago.. it was never off the turntable... so today 4 stars.......
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Post by johnny on May 2, 2024 12:05:07 GMT
^I pretty much agree with your descriptions of the songs. The drum beat in TWTIA is distracting.
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Post by gary on May 2, 2024 12:21:04 GMT
I’ve given it four stars. That means I like it a lot but I wouldn’t rate it as a masterpiece. The only ABBA albums I would give five stars to are Arrival and The Album, which are practically perfect in every way.
There’s something slightly bland about Super Trouper. I prefer real instruments to synthesisers, and there is a lack of any real rock songs.
I would only rate two songs on Super Trouper as great, The Winner Takes It All and Our Last Summer. But I like all the others. There are no clunkers, unlike on The Visitors or Voyage, for example.
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Post by HOMETIME on May 2, 2024 16:48:19 GMT
I was obsessed with this album when it first came out. It basically lived on my turntable for months. Nowadays? Not so much. And I don't know why. By any metric, it's populated with great songs. I think it's the only album where any of the ten tracks could have worked as a single at the time. The standout tracks for me on release day were On And On And On and Andante Andante. I went severely off both songs over the years. Songs that I was less fond of back then - Happy New Year, Our Last Summer, Me And I - have really grown on me. It's a really solid album, though. When I do play it, I always enjoy the experience. But I'm far more likely to play The Visitors, Voulez-Vous and, for now, Voyage.
I loved Elaine from the moment I flipped over The Winner Takes It All. It's got a zesty energy that the album really needs. I wish more of the tracks had this kind of feel. But this sounds like too much of an outlier to work on this album track, IMO.
Having thought about it, my ranking for the album tracks these days would look a lot like this:
1. Lay All Your Love On Me - This is my favourite kind of Agnetha vocal. Bit of vim, no self-pity (despite the theme).
2. Me And I - That chorus is massive! Would have needed a bit of pruning for 7", I think, but would have been a hit from any other album.
3. Our last Summer - I think this song is a bit over-produced. I'd love something a bit stripped back. But the vocal is great - and those harmonies! <3
4. Super Trouper - I wish that glockenspiel figure had been played on electric guitar and that the BPM had been ramped up a smidge.
5. The Winner Takes It All - controversial to some, but it's so overplayed that I even find myself skipping it. Great vocal performance. No problems with the drums myself. For me, they keep the song from veering completely in to whiney, poor-me territory.
6. On And On And On - sometimes I find myself craving the electro-rock edge of this track, and nothing else will do. But I'm sated after one play.
7. The Piper - Knowing what Bjorn was doing with the lyrics, the song seems very pertinent today.
8. The Way Old Friends Do - I'm a sucker for the emotional swell of the second turn of the verse. The lyrics are simple, the performance emotional. I can live knowing that it's overdubbed to within an inch of its life. Kinda foreshadows how Ode To Freedom wraps up proceedings on Voyage.
9. Happy New Year. For a long time, I actually hated this. Having avoided it for a long time, I enjoyed it when I heard it over the most recent Christmas. Real strings and an instrumental third verse might possibly elevate this for me. The ELO harmonies are undeniably lovely.
10. Andante, Andante. Despite its position, I don't dislike this song. I don't like the backing vocals in the chorus, though. Another that might benefit from a simpler arrangement.
If Elaine were on the album, I reckon it'd rank quite high. Maybe even #3? If Put On Your White Sombrero were on it, it'd definitely be way down the list. Somewhere around #2,357. Ugh!
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Post by johnny on May 2, 2024 17:18:59 GMT
Hometime, I know what you mean about some Agnetha lead vocals. From.about 1980 there was a self-pitying tone. LAYLOM.was an acception - and yes, a bit of vim as you put it, in the vocals.
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Post by foreverfan on May 2, 2024 18:10:01 GMT
If I had to rank....
1. LAYLOM
2. The Piper
3. OAOAO
4. Elaine
5. TWTIA
6. Me And I
7. ST
8. HNY
9. AA
10. OLS
11.POYWS
12. TWOFD
If we count GGG, it would be around 5.
Like all of us this varies from day to day, there actually isn't a track I dislike, and in a top 100 ish all would be top 50... It's a good album.
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Post by Alan on May 2, 2024 18:27:02 GMT
If we count GGG, it would be around 5. Gimme Gimme Gimme is much more associated with Voulez-Vous isn’t it? I know it was on the 1997 reissue of Super Trouper but it didn’t belong on there, and was soon rectified four years later. |
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Post by HOMETIME on May 2, 2024 20:49:34 GMT
Hometime, I know what you mean about some Agnetha lead vocals. From.about 1980 there was a self-pitying tone. LAYLOM.was an acception - and yes, a bit of vim as you put it, in the vocals. I don't want to be unfair to Agnetha, because she was assigned the songs. Whether subconsciously or deliberately, Benny & Bjorn seemed to typecast her as the devastated, heartbroken victim, while Frida seemed to be given the role of the survivor, a more pragmatic pull-up-your-socks and carry on type. As even Agnetha acknowledges, this material is right in her wheelhouse and her acting/storytelling pulls the heartbreak to the fore. The clarity of her tone is sublime on Chiquitita and I like how she seems to wobble on a tightrope in IBWFY. But give me the kind of energy she delivers in AGAN, GGG, LAYLOM. I'm not keen on poor-me lyrics, generally, but if they're delivered in a ballsy way, it can be brilliant. I think this is why WYAAM is my favourite Agnetha album: she completely dodged the whining and sobbing. |
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Post by johnny on May 3, 2024 15:13:40 GMT
Hometime, you're right Agnetha was given the "victim" songs and Frida the "survivor" songs.
This also fed into the stereotype of both women in their private lives. Agnetha, the girl next door type who was focussed on her children, had a complex private life (such as that Stalker relationship)
Whereas Frida was the "pull herself together" who faced many setbacks and tragedies in her life - but always bounced back. She was also the Campaigner and more confident one.
But you can make the case for the reverse too. Agnetha's dislike of touring and promotions, and only doing so on her terms. Surprising everyone with comeback solo albums etc.
Frida fell apart after the divorce from Benny and was very bitter while Agnetha put her split from Bjorn in her stride and never found the need for remarriage. She was her own woman.
But the common perception is Agnetha = victim and self-pitying and Frida = gutsy survivor.
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Post by Alan on May 3, 2024 15:27:30 GMT
Agnetha did briefly have a second husband, Tomas Sonnenfeld. They married in 1990 but divorced three years later. She’s not had much luck with men since her split from Björn at the end of 1978.
[It’s claimed on Wikipedia that her second marriage only became public knowledge when they divorced, but that’s incorrect as I distinctly remember it being mentioned in the news on breakfast TV in 1990. It was more of a surprise that anyone from ABBA got a mention on British TV at that point, than it was that she’d remarried.]
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Post by johnny on May 3, 2024 15:35:15 GMT
Alan says she's not had much luck with men. Maybe doesn't feel the need. Some people are blissfully happy not being in relationships.
This "not much luck with men" is seeing Agnetha as a victim.
Maybe she longs for a man...or maybe she doesn't. A person without a partner is not a victim.
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Post by jj-guest on May 3, 2024 15:40:43 GMT
Agnetha did in fact remarry in the early 1990s, to surgeon Tomas Sonnenfeld (?), but that relationship didn't last more than a couple of years.
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Post by jj-guest on May 3, 2024 16:03:13 GMT
Quite contrary to the public perceptions and media-created images, I've heard that Agnetha actually is, and always has been, a strong-willed, tough and outgoing person, and that she, in her younger days as a solo artist on tour, swore like a trouper and used words that would make a sailor blush.
And I've heard that Frida, during the ABBA years at least, lacked self-confidence and completely relied on Benny for advice and constant moral support. This seems to be confirmed by Phil Collins, who became frustrated that Frida would never come and out and tell him exactly what she thought and how she personally wanted her solo project to feel/sound.
In other words, Agnetha, it turns out, might in fact be the tough, resilient one, and Frida the shy and delicate one. |
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Post by johnny on May 3, 2024 16:22:21 GMT
Well yes, MAYBE the reality is different from the perception.
That she had a brief marriage in the early 90s and no marriage after tells us nothing about her character.
If you believe she's 'vulnerable' or a 'victim' you will see this fact (no lasting marriage) as failure. It is a bit sexist too if you feels a woman needs "luck" ie having long lasting relationship with a man.
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Post by Alan on May 3, 2024 17:04:11 GMT
I wasn’t saying I saw her as a victim. She did have a few relationships after Björn but none of them lasted. Perhaps that was her choice, we don’t know. It’s her private life and absolutely none of our business.
I actually think she is happy on her own. Certainly when the split with Björn was announced in early 1979, the perception was that she wanted out. If she needed a man she’d possibly have stuck with him. She didn’t, even though she had two young children with him and worked with him.
I would agree, the perception of her as this Greta Garbo-esque recluse and a victim is utter nonsense. I think she’s happy with the life she’s chosen.
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Post by eddie on May 3, 2024 17:23:47 GMT
" Super Trouper " is one of my favourite ABBA studio album. I can remember skipping to the high street in anticipation of buying a copy. I think it is their most accomplished album. For me the stand out track is " The Winner Takes It All ". A beautiful yet very sad song. I don't think it is overplayed at all. Agnetha's story telling lead vocals are amazing and heartfelt enveloped in Benny's cascading and flowing piano melodies. One of ABBA's finest moments which has stood the test of time very well. After downing a bottle of whiskey Bjorn had written a bona fide classic. I don't care if others don't agree. We are all entitled to our own opinions.
My ratings as follow,.
11. " Put On Your White Sombrero " Generally I tend to avoid this track as it doesn't " float my boat " at all. Definitely not worthy of album inclusion. The vocals are too stilted.
10. " Super Trouper " . Personally I don't think this is a pop classic fans perceive it to be. Years ago I quite liked the song but over the years I have tired of it and it is the track I skip the most. Sorry if I offend anyone.
9. " Me And I " A solid track but I feel it is too synthesised.
8. " The Way Old Friends Do " A good old concert sing-a-long.
7. " Elaine " A great tune but overall I can't warm to it for some reason.
6. " The Piper " Catchy yet mysteriously eerie.
5 " Lay All Your Love On Me " An absolute disco banger. Ahead of its time.
4. " Our Last Summer " An outstanding ballad with a wistful lead from Frida.
3. " Happy New Year " This is simply beautiful with a charming Agnetha lead performance.
2. " Andante Andante " Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more. Frida's vocals never sounded so sensual and erotic.
!. " The Winner Takes It All " A slice of sophisticated pop perfection. A heart breaking lament to lost love. I can feel the dejection and melancholy within Agnetha's vocal prowess.
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Post by HOMETIME on May 3, 2024 17:34:40 GMT
For the avoidance of any confusion, my opinions about the roles Agnetha and Frida occupied as singers have nothing at all to do with their private lives. The characters (or, in some cases, caricatures) built by the media were probably coloured by the kinds of songs they were given and maybe even more by their performances on video and TV. You're right, johnny, they have both defied the lazy pen pictures drawn of them by tabloid hacks and lazy writers. Their private lives are infinitely more multidimensional and human. I'm glad they guard their privacy. |
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Post by eddie on May 3, 2024 17:36:10 GMT
My apologies. I have omitted " On And On And On " . A rocking belter but not a favourite of mine.
My amended ratings,
12. POYWS
11. ST
10. OAOAO
9. MAI
8. TWOFD
7. EL
6. TP
5. LAYLOM
4. OLS
3. HNY
2. AA
1. TWTIA
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Post by HOMETIME on May 3, 2024 17:38:22 GMT
No surprise with your No.1, Eddie!
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Post by eddie on May 3, 2024 17:46:53 GMT
Tony, you can read me like a book !
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Post by johnny on May 3, 2024 18:21:33 GMT
My Top 12 including Bonus tracks
1. LAYLOM
2. The Piper
3. Elaine
4. Me and I
5. On and On and On
6. The Way Old Friends Do
7. Happy New Year
8. Super Trouper
9. Our Last Summer
10. The Winner Takes it All
11. Andante, Andante
12. Put On Your White Sombrero
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Post by Alan on May 3, 2024 20:45:18 GMT
Is Super Trouper significant in that it has three songs that have three full verses? Happy New Year, The Piper and Lay All Your Love on Me. I like that. Our Last Summer has a half third verse but that doesn’t count. And The Winner Takes It All is really just a series of verses, but those three songs do it properly. Andante, Andante fails in that regard as the first two verses are joined together without a chorus in the middle.
Do many/any other ABBA songs have three full verses (all with a chorus following)? I’ve never really thought about it until now!
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Post by truedogz on May 3, 2024 21:42:28 GMT
This album I have described in another thread as the 'smoothest' prior to Voyage as there seems to be a flow or ease of transition about it. That said it misses out for me on reaching any heady peaks as found as say on Arrival.
The tracks I enjoy most are:
Our Last Summer, there is a real reflective quality about it with great harmonies. It is the equivalent of Slipping Through My Fingers on the Visitors and would fit into Voyage too. My test for a great ABBA song is the tune comes into my head and I start whistling it. This is the only one on this album.
Lay All Your Love. A very polished recording, love the synth throughout and at the end. Once described as a hym sung over a slutty backing track!
The Way Old Friends Do. Great harmonies and for ABBA a simple arrangement. Should have been longer with another verse which would have made it a classic new years eve track on radio as happens a bit with Happy New Year.
I have never been a big fan of TWTIA though recognise it as B&B have said in their best five recordings. For me in this track the lyrics are more powerful than the music and the clip with Agnetha helped sell it.
In my opinion the album closest to 5 stars (apart from Gold) is Arrival. With that benchmark I'd give The Visitors 4.5 and probably ABBA which is more variable but has classic ABBA sounds. Super Trouper is 5 star for sound quality but fails to hit the peaks on other albums so 4 stars from me.
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Post by gary on May 3, 2024 23:37:09 GMT
My top 10 (I don’t count bonus tracks as they weren’t on the original album):
1 The Winner Takes It All
2 Our Last Summer
3 Super Trouper
4 Me And I
5 The Piper
6 On And On And On
7 Happy New Year
8 Andante Andante
9 The Way Old Friends Do
10 Lay All Your Love On Me
I like Elaine and Put On Your White Sombrero more than most of the tracks on the album.
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Post by lamont on May 5, 2024 11:59:47 GMT
I would give it 4 stars. I received the album for Christmas in 1980 when I was 8. I played it relentlessly, to me it was like a concept album of an ABBA concert, the front cover is ABBA arriving in amongst all the other entertainment at the show and ABBA were the main event.
I think it was maybe the song ST that would make me think that, about being on stage, then obviously the final song with the applause etc.
I also think this was reiterated in my brain when I read in the book ‘Guinness Book Of No’1 hits’ which roughly said about ST: “as the final words of the song are echoed throughout of the emptying arena…”
I further thought that there was a Super Trouper live show somewhere.
Now, I think the production aesthetics timestamps the album into the early 80’s with Benny’s synths. It reminds me very much of Madonna’s Ray Of Light album from 98, with William Orbit’s production which like ST, anchors it to a specific time period.
It is a very solid album, and for my own listening pleasure, I slot Elaine in after Me and I, and POYWS after The Piper (don’t crucify me!)
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Post by eddie on May 6, 2024 9:33:43 GMT
Lamont, I also, played it non stop after first buying a copy of the album back in November 1980.
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Post by Tiger76 on May 6, 2024 12:26:17 GMT
If I had to rank....
1. TWTIA
2. LAYLOM
3. ST
4. OLS
5. Elaine
6. Me And I
7. The Piper
8. HNY
9. AA
10. OAOAN
11.POYWS
12. TWOFD
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Post by jchanabbafan on May 30, 2024 11:35:17 GMT
Another great album cover !
1 Me And I - pop synth perfection
2 Lay All Your Love On Me - more synth perfection
3 The Piper - vocal perfection
4 The Winner Takes It All - agree with the 'masterpiece' tag
5 The Way Old Friends Do - love the emotional theme
6 Our Last Summer - Frida is great - some lyrics a bit clunky
7 Super Trouper - like it but now love it sans the 'supa troopa' backing vocals - thanks youtube !
8 On And On And On - great but why isn't the full version here ? always preferred the extra verse from the video
9 Happy New Year - now appears dated but if you cut out 'the end of 89' bit the problem is solved
10 Andante Andante - ok, hint of stage musical about it
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