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Post by richard on Mar 14, 2023 13:05:50 GMT
I don't know if this one has any legs, but I thought I'd give it a go. I was wondering what tracks you love in the broad spectrum of pop/rock music that you regard as very different from ABBA.
When it comes to pop, I'm sure the vast majority of us here regard ABBA as unsurpassed. But what about non-ABBA stuff you love that diverges greatly from ABBA? Generally speaking, no group can be all things to all listeners, or even all things to any one listener: and so we find things in other pop/rock that is not in ABBA.
Of course, it depends on personal tastes, but I love the rock, blues and jazzy elements in Steely Dan's music and not ABBA's. A couple of my favourites from The Dan:
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 14, 2023 21:18:51 GMT
Love these threads - I always get introduced to something new. Here's a handful of my favourites:
ELBOW / Starlings. Possibly the most romantic lyric I've ever heard. And that voice. *swoon*
GRACE JONES / Williams Blood. Grace delivered this amazing album (and liver performances) in her 60s.
ALISON MOYET / Changeling. From the amazing album The Minutes
EDDI READER / Dear John. Penned by Kirsty MacColl. Sublime.
JESSIE WARE / Spotlight. This woman is such a class act. Incredible voice.
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Post by richard on Mar 16, 2023 13:15:59 GMT
I enjoyed listening to those live performances, Tony. And totally agree about Jessie Ware: her voice, the song, and the arrangement - love it.
One thing that strikes me about ABBA - and, to be fair, about most groups, I suppose, that aim for successful singles - is how every space on the track seemingly has to be filled. So it's a comparatively rare thing, I think, when a sparsely-arranged song comes out as a single - and a successful one at that. This song moves me; and I regard Stevie Wonder as a genius.
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Post by joseph on Mar 16, 2023 21:30:36 GMT
Good to see Eddi Reader getting a shout out. What a beautiful voice she has. This thread deserves more response but time will tell. It's a shame really as Richard always posts thought-provoking threads. Still, how many of us post with any regularity? 5? Wouldn't surprise me.
As much as I love ABBA, I think it would have been nice if they'd stripped things back in their productions on occasions. Don't get me wrong; I love that soundscape. So rich and full but I am a fan of simplicity, too. Anyway...there are so many I could choose as I have such broad taste but off the top of my head Wolf Alice spring to mind. Also, Lana Del Ray. I love her cinematic approach. I love the atmosphere she presents in her work. Floaty, dreamy. I'm also a HUGE fan of Saint Etienne and All About Eve and ABBA just never fit into any kind of 'indie' mode, did they? Ultimate pop group, yeah...but very polished with no real dirty, 'raw' edge to them. I spoke to an old friend the other day and after all these years it transpires that she's definitely not a fan of ABBA! Shocker. And yet she likes a lot of groups such as Faithless, etc which I am also a fan of. I almost leapt down her throat but actually exercised restraint. There's no changing some people's minds.
I must give Everything But The Girl a mention too. I like Tracy's voice a lot but again, their sound is about as far from ABBA as possible. Her voice has deepened somewhat but I'm liking their new music. Can you IMAGINE ABBA doing drum and bass? Lol thought not.
I cringe at a few of ABBA's attempts at 'rocking out', particularly Björn in Rock Me. I don't actually hate it but..you know. Of course it has its charm. But listen to She Sells Sanctuary by The Cult. THAT'S how it's done.
PS I'm aware you don't get much more minimal than Like An Angel Passing Through My Room. I meant to clarify that I'd have liked it if ABBA had taken this approach more often, perhaps with live renditions of bangers like Dancing Queen. I understand why they felt they needed to try to reproduce their songs as close to their studio versions as possible on stage but oh how wonderful it would be to hear songs like Angeleyes given an accapella approach. That is all. As you were.
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Post by foreverfan on Mar 17, 2023 9:50:56 GMT
^^Joe , I hope there’s more than 5 of us that post regularly, at least 10..lol..
it’s a shame so few of us post, a sign of the times I guess, we may have a up surge next year breaking that 20 posters ?
Enough of that, I have had a thought and realise that I don’t deviate much from that Pop/ Ballad genre...
Soft rock comes about as radical as it gets, Tina Turner esq...It’s not that I don’t listen to other types, but I seem to default if playing a CD for instance..
Recently I’m trying to appreciate “ today’s “ music without to much success, I like the current Flowers by Myley Cyrus..but as Colin once said a lot of today’s music is beige and instantly forgettable or is it just my age,
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 10:39:51 GMT
I have quite a wide range in taste.
Punk, New Wave, Disco, Soul, Soft Rock, Ska, Britpop etc.
But I don't really like much modern stuff. I too think it is just unforgettable. I know the names of the most popular acts but cannot remember any of their songs.
Richard - Lately by Stevie Wonder is a great song. It's my favourite song of his.
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Post by lamont on Mar 17, 2023 16:04:01 GMT
Only act who is so different from ABBA who I like is probably Kate Bush. It is nice to see who other fans like. aerial by Kate is a classic album, especially disc 2, If someone wants to listen to it on a balmy summer evening sitting in the garden, the whole album is based on a sunny afternoon, through the evening to the following morning. It’s rather life affirming.
In fact, one evening I was listening to it in the garden and Kate had birds’ songs scattered throughout the suite. One time a real blackbird was singing/responding to the blackbird on the album, was joyful.
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Post by Alan on Mar 17, 2023 17:58:12 GMT
Only act who is so different from ABBA who I like is probably Kate Bush. Is she all that different? I’m not so sure (and I say this as a massive fan). Someone on here said recently that they thought Kate Bush was overrated. I wouldn’t have said that 20 years ago but now I possibly would. So high is her pedestal that it’s almost like no one dares criticise her. You mention Aerial, lamont, and I would agree the second disc of that is up there with her best work, but the other disc is a bit more patchy (“Bertie” anyone?). In fact, almost everything she’s done since Hounds of Love has been a bit hit-and-miss, with arguably The Red Shoes and Director’s Cut being the low points. 50 Words For Snow I find difficult to sit through. Songs too long and the changes in her voice are not good. I’m not sure she’s looked after it at all (but then, she smoked for a long time). I may have criticised Agnetha’s voice on Voyage but it’s nothing compared to Kate’s on Director’s Cut and 50 Words. Strangely she sounded better on Before The Dawn but I have my doubts on whether that was truly live (but then, she’s no different from many other acts these days - seems to be more about giving a good show than everything truly being live - just sing along to the original studio recordings to enhance it). Running Up That Hill was number one last year thanks to Stranger Things, but I felt very detached from that. The song was 27 years old and came from a very different Kate Bush. Her 1978-1985 output I’ll always defend (and the second disc of Aerial, apart from the awful laughter in the title track), but the rest I’m less sure about now. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 18:14:00 GMT
Alan, yes Kate Bush's best work was during 1978-2005. Seven years seems to be the cut of date for many acts, The Beatles, Queen, The Carpenters, Madonna and that Swedish group.
Running Up that Hill was 37 last year. I am sure that was just a typo 😀
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Post by Alan on Mar 17, 2023 18:27:18 GMT
mRunning Up that Hill was 37 last year. I am sure that was just a typo 😀 Oops. Yes. 37 years is a very long time. The Winner Takes It All and Don’t Shut Me Down / I Still Have Faith In You have that length of a separation. I’d love for Kate to come back with something really good but accessible. It’s rumoured she might release a new album this year (she’s recently moved distribution of most of her work from Parlophone/Warner to a smaller independent company). If she can do something only half as good as those two ABBA songs it will be worth waiting for. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 18:42:00 GMT
Kate Bush's post 1985 songs certainly not accessible.
Yes, those first two Voyage songs are pretty good. It just wish the rest of the album was up to that quality. I don't feel there was anything wrong with Agnetha's voice on Voyage. It was, for me a song issue. The "storytelling" is just too thestrical for me - and for Agnetha that sounds whingey and depressing.
2017 was a good year for veteran acts making new recordings. Some good songs on both the Blondie album and the Buckingham/Mcvie album that year..
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Post by lamont on Mar 17, 2023 19:40:58 GMT
Only act who is so different from ABBA who I like is probably Kate Bush. Is she all that different? I’m not so sure (and I say this as a massive fan). Someone on here said recently that they thought Kate Bush was overrated. I wouldn’t have said that 20 years ago but now I possibly would. So high is her pedestal that it’s almost like no one dares criticise her. You mention Aerial, lamont, and I would agree the second disc of that is up there with her best work, but the other disc is a bit more patchy (“Bertie” anyone?). I kinda just meant that Kate is more left field at times, especially The Dreaming album, where ABBA were kinda bit more commercial, though they also did many different song styles and experiments. I like Kate’s voice has deepened somewhat, not as shrill as when she was young. Her later output can take a while to get into. I bought my friend Director’s Cut for his birthday this year. He is a hi-fi enthusiast and spent thousands on equipment, his speakers alone were around £14,000. He was replacing his record collection with CDs, hence my gift to him. He couldn’t believe how well the album sounded on his sound system: he mentioned something about the optimum megahertz or frequency of recorded music (way over my head!) he said that album was the most perfect album he’s ever heard. 50 Words For Snow is obviously perfect when it’s snowing, though not too much this year. Looking forward to new music too. I also liked Benny saying about her: “she’s rather special isn’t she?” Which is lovely. |
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Post by Alan on Mar 17, 2023 20:20:09 GMT
I’m conscious that this topic has been hijacked by discussion of Kate Bush, which I’ve assisted with (apologies, richard). There is a Kate Bush thread, but I’m wondering if there’s another discussion? Are certain acts seen as beyond criticism, and in some cases is their most derided work described as the best by some fans who are somehow desperate to be seen as a) supportive of the act and b) better than other fans because they think they “get” something others don’t? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 23:27:23 GMT
Alan, I think you are on to something. I certainly think some acts and songs are beyond criticism by the "sweaty, obsessive fans" as Agnetha put it.
Your points
A) Some fans want to stay loyal
B) Some fans deride other fans who don't get it
I add a third
C) Some fans think the most recent is up their with the best.
I think this was the case with The Day Before You Came. Many fans didn't like it - and dismissed as not recognising its 'genius' by admirers.
It is easier to criticise popular ABBA hits than obscure "fan favourites" with certain hard core fans.
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Post by richard on Mar 17, 2023 23:50:56 GMT
I’m conscious that this topic has been hijacked by discussion of Kate Bush, which I’ve assisted with (apologies, richard ). There is a Kate Bush thread, but I’m wondering if there’s another discussion? Are certain acts seen as beyond criticism, and in some cases is their most derided work described as the best by some fans who are somehow desperate to be seen as a) supportive of the act and b) better than other fans because they think they “get” something others don’t? Not at all, Alan.The discussion about Kate Bush I find very interesting. In the context of pop music, especially when she first came on the scene, Kate was a startling original, and, for me, was very different from ABBA. I see ABBA as being, brilliantly, in the commercial pop tradition of other groups such as The Beatles, The Beach Boys, and Fleetwood Mac. And now I think about it, I find it very difficult to point to artists who have successfully ploughed their own furrow outside this tradition. Albums, of course, allow an artist to stretch out a bit, if they're so inclined, but when it comes to hoped-for hit singles, I think it's very hard to name artists and songs that don't 'fit in', so to speak. Regarding artists who have acquired a 'beyond criticism' tag, I think the success of such artists has often fostered arrogance and complacency that invites criticism. Much as I love The Beatles' music, for example, they really deserved some flack: the silly, drug-induced lyrics ('Semolina pilchards climbing up the Eiffel Tower'); the trite lyrics ('You say goodbye, and I say hello. I don't know why you say goodbye; I say hello'). And not forgetting the ludicrously long fade to 'Hey Jude'. Glad that ABBA never resorted to that sort of thing. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 18, 2023 12:19:06 GMT
There's nothing more boring than having "sacred cow" artists put on pedestals marked "beyond criticism." A ridiculous amount of it has to do with drugs or early/tragic deaths, like they're lifestyle goals.
I presume my school was no different to anyone else's but, back in *cough* the late 1900s, the worst thing any act could be was commercial. Like anyone ever released a record hoping it wouldn't sell? I remember that Bowie/Police/The Jam occupied the top tier and, if you weren't a fan, you had better at least have The Beatles or The Rolling Stones on your reserve list. But I remember a few furtive requests for Summer Night City to be added to the cassette I'd just been passed. And maybe a few others too, just to make up the time on the tape, of course. Take A Chance On Me, maybe. Or The Name Of The Game. Oh, and definitely Dancing Queen. But it was all hush-hush. Honestly, I reckon giving a blowie behind the bike sheds would have carried less shame for them.
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Post by joseph on Mar 18, 2023 17:05:50 GMT
A few points:
I don't buy into the nonsense spouted that there's no good music nowadays or that it's all 'beige' (whatever the hell that means). There's excellent new music out there, you just have to look for it. It's certainly different these days of course. 'Back in the day', there would be many excellent songs in any given top 40 whereas I wouldn't necessarily look to the charts now to seek quality. Delve deeper.
Another thing that irritates me slightly is the idea that ABBA were 'disco' (not that there's anything wrong with that, disco bashers can get in the bin) but they were so much more. My dear friend, who's not an ABBA fan and if pressed I feel sure would even be derisory, is I believe suffering from the prejudices of her parents who were big Nirvana fans and looked down at anything poppy. How I despise that kind of snooty attitude. But naturally we like what we like and if everybody likes you then maybe you're doing something wrong. I'm just suspicious of people who claim to hate ABBA. One bloke I knew claimed to detest Dancing Queen. Seemed rather obsessed/protesting too much, if you know what I mean.
It's a thing with age that some people remain stuck in the past and I get that. My favourite singers/music and bands have mostly remained constant for many years years but I refuse to be close-minded and dismissive of anything new. Of course I don't like EVERYTHING but I keep an open mind and give things the benefit of a few listens and often find I like music I might instinctively have dismissed purely because I've shut my mind off. No. I hope to always feel inspired.
Anyway, I'll be back to post some of the stuff I've grown to like recently that is very different to ABBA. There's room for it all.
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Post by gary on Mar 18, 2023 18:49:23 GMT
^ Yes, the idea that ABBA were a ‘disco’ group has always annoyed me. Out of their 100-odd pre-Voyage songs, I reckon I can count the ‘disco’ songs on the fingers of one hand. Summer Night City, As Good As New, Voulez-Vous, Gimme Gimme Gimme, Lay All Your Love On Me are it.
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Post by HOMETIME on Mar 20, 2023 8:42:33 GMT
I kinda feel that the disco label for ABBA is an American import. Given the homophobic and racist animus that was part of the spittle-flecked campaign against disco in the States in the late 70s, I wonder if "disco" was also code for "gay"?
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Post by gary on Mar 21, 2023 22:27:01 GMT
Apart from ABBA, my favourite artists are (along with a suggestion of a non-hit song I particularly recommend):
Bruce Springsteen (Thunder Road)
David Bowie (Station To Station)
Bob Dylan (Idiot Wind)
Elton John (High Flying Bird)
Joni Mitchell (The Same Situation)
Paul Simon/Simon and Garfunkel (The Only Living Boy In New York)
REM (Chorus And The Ring)
Billy Joel (I’ve Loved These Days)
Beatles (Rain)
Bee Gees (Soldiers)
You can certainly guess my age from those!
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Post by richard on Mar 22, 2023 14:59:30 GMT
Francoise Hardy is one of my favourites.
And I think Gary has hit on a good option: choosing as songs that are very different from ABBA non-hits and album tracks that can still be categorised, broadly, as pop/rock. Billy Joel is also a big favourite of mine: great voice, composer, lyricist and pianist.
So a good excuse for me to to post another couple of tracks I love - one from each of these artists - which I think exemplify, in their different ways, the theme of this thread.
This was Francoise Hardy's first big hit in Europe, I think. And I find the pared-back arrangement of the early 60s very appealing:
And this one from Billy Joel - one of my favourite love songs. Love the sax solo, too. (I mentioned in another thread, some time ago, that I wish Benny had stretched himself out with piano solos in a couple or more ABBA tracks. Great riffs and fillers everywhere, but I don't think any 'proper' solos as such.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 15:08:40 GMT
There's a lot of artists that I only have a Greatest Hits album, so when looking at GOLD there are many casual fans who don't know the studio albums...
Artists to which I only have a GH album
Elvis Presley
Eddie Cochran
Diana Ross/Supremes
Kinks
Rolling Stones
Carpenters
David Bowie
Donna Summer
Dolly Parton
Bangles
Tina Turner
Crowded House
Beautiful South
Blur
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Post by gary on Mar 31, 2023 18:31:46 GMT
Those four Dollar singles produced by Trevor Horn are sublime!
I’ve just watched Get Back, an eight-hour documentary about the Beatles trying to write a new album in 1969, just after the White Album. It’s absolutely riveting viewing. It’s all footage of the band in the studio. Seeing Paul McCartney just sitting there creating Let It Be and Get Back is watching genius at work. They all come across well, and mostly friendly with each other despite what was assumed at the time. If there was something similar for ABBA, we would be in ecstasy, believe me!
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Post by Alan on Mar 31, 2023 20:20:31 GMT
If there was something similar for ABBA, we would be in ecstasy, believe me! I think I’ll settle for all four of them still being alive and releasing an album after 39 years. Even if John Lennon hadn’t been murdered, and possibly remained in good health to this day, George Harrison died in 2001 aged 58, which was “only” 31 years after the last Beatles album release. That’s how lucky we are. All of ABBA made it to their 70s and therefore belatedly got back together. Had one of them been as unlucky as George Harrison, there would never have been an ABBA reunion. (I know you didn’t mean it like that, but I think it’s worth pointing out again). |
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 2, 2023 16:23:18 GMT
Those four Dollar singles produced by Trevor Horn are sublime! I’ve just watched Get Back, an eight-hour documentary about the Beatles trying to write a new album in 1969, just after the White Album. It’s absolutely riveting viewing. It’s all footage of the band in the studio. Seeing Paul McCartney just sitting there creating Let It Be and Get Back is watching genius at work. They all come across well, and mostly friendly with each other despite what was assumed at the time. If there was something similar for ABBA, we would be in ecstasy, believe me! Those particular Dollar singles are like a masterclass in pop production. Hand Held In Black And White is the track that made ABC ask for Trevor Horn to produce their Lexicon Of Love album. Videotheque is amazing too. Dollar were easy to trash - especially as David Van Day is such an utter knob. A recent interview with Theresa Bazar came up on YouTube recently and it was pretty interesting. It looks like she was the brains in the group, being their main writer and she even produced both Dollar and other bands in the 80s. I haven't seen Get Back but it sounds fascinating. Imagine if we had that kind of footage from the sessions for Voulez-Vous or The Visitors - times when they seemed to face particular challenges, both musically and personally? ABBA needs a proper documentary that focuses on the creativity and the music. Anything we've had has dwelt too much on the kitsch, the divorces, the money, and promoting Mamma bloody Mia. |
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Post by richard on Apr 2, 2023 17:34:38 GMT
If all four members, and also Michael Tretow, could reminisce, hopefully in some detail, about a few of their favourite ABBA tracks, I'd welcome that; and I hope lots of people who love pop/rock would too: the vocals, arrangements, recordings, etc. I don't think it would really bother me much which songs/tracks were focused on as I'm sure it would be fascinating whichever ones were chosen
But is this another aspect that differenciates ABBA from other artists: their seeming reluctance or lack of interest to discuss how they went about things in any detail? Or perhaps they're not unique in that? Maybe it's considered by 'whoever' to be of too limited an interest?
Pity, if so.
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Post by Alan on Apr 2, 2023 18:11:38 GMT
I’ll join the Dollar club too. I also love their first album, Shooting Stars. It was produced by Christopher Neil who went on to produce a lot of major acts. The big hit from that album - Love’s Gotta Hold On Me (number 4 in 1979) - was supposed to be sung by David Van Day but because it was so high, he tried and couldn’t do it, so Thereza Bazar sang it instead and it was their biggest hit so far (a fact which the arrogant David apparently hated!). The Top of the Pops performance of it is hilarious, with David reduced to little more than a backing singer (though does sing the last line).
Reissue label Cherry Red actually re-released Shooting Stars a few years ago in its original artwork, along with a CD boxed set of all their albums and output. Although I had most of the stuff already, I bought it!
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Post by HOMETIME on Apr 3, 2023 11:39:39 GMT
Christopher Neil has a very distinct sound - especially those male backing vocals. Despite it being one of my favourite hits of the era, I didn't realise that he produced Marshal Hain's "Dancing in the City" - but now that I know, I think it could pass for a Dollar record. He produced Sheena Easton's first three albums but his work with her sounded a lot more conservative.
I laughed when David Van Day went solo in the early 80s. Having spent the previous couple of years slagging Bucks Fizz off, he hired their producer and basically aped their sound for "Young Americans Talking" (a decent pop single, in fairness). I heard Thereza Bazar's solo album for the first time the other day. It's better than I expected, even if her voice is not for me. Big budget producer (Arif Mardin), sound and video. I think big things were expected?
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Post by jj on Apr 3, 2023 12:25:20 GMT
If all four members, and also Michael Tretow, could reminisce, hopefully in some detail, about a few of their favourite ABBA tracks, I'd welcome that;
The complete disappearance of Tretow from any media ever since his stroke nearly 20 years ago leads me to conclude that his health might have been severely compromised and he is no longer able, or willing, to appear in front of a video camera or speak into a microphone. Of course I hope I'm mistaken and that he's actually well. If he is well, it's extremely odd that he has not been interviewed in all these years.
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