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Post by richard on May 12, 2023 21:20:59 GMT
I've sometimes forgotten to take the ESC with a suitably light enough attitude, especially when it was obvious that some extra-musical or non- musical or political voting was going on. (I remember that the lateTerry Wogan once commented when one panel gave a very attractive girl - perhaps singing a naff song - top marks: "They have an eye for beauty!"). So yes, why not Ukraine winning again? Except - and perhaps unfairly - it would be too much if it happened a second time in a row, even if was widely regarded, genuinely, as the best song, as their entry last year might have been by many and not just out of sympathy.
Just enjoy it as a show, and if you rate the winning song, too, that's a bonus.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2023 6:02:02 GMT
Look at all the time, effort, money, put into the ESC from artists and their teams from so many countries.
It would be all for nothing if Ukraine won again.
Yes, I know there has been "political" voting. But I don't think any one country benefitted.
The ESC is right to resist pressure from politicians to hsve Zelensky give a statement at the contest.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2023 23:05:06 GMT
Sweden wins!
Next year's contest will be in Sweden - ABBA's 50th ann8versary of Waterloo win.
Now let's have something ABBA for that.
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Post by foreverfan on May 14, 2023 6:55:00 GMT
We now have a full year of rumours..lol
It could be very interesting for us.. will they won't they.... it would be a perfect ending.. I for one would be happy with that, Id even be happy if they sang Thank You For The Music, perhaps a very fitting finale..
We wait... love the thought of all those rumours though...
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2023 7:03:15 GMT
Rumours and conspiracy theories.
There are people saying Loreen's win was rigged so Sweden would host for the 50th anniversary.
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Post by foreverfan on May 14, 2023 7:48:51 GMT
And so it starts...lol
Can't wait to read all of them......
Probably we will get nothing just a side mention....
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2023 9:33:35 GMT
I didn't see all of it. I wasn't going to watch 4 hours of it.
I saw the first hour or so up to Loreen's entry then turned on TV again as voting about to start.
From what I did see I thought it was padded out.
The UK entry is a pretty average song. From what I read the performance was dire - out of tune, couldn't sing etc.
Truth is the UK entries have been pretty rubbish since Katerina and the Waves last won. Maybe not worst, second worst or third worst like a few ended up. But deservedly ending up in the bottom ten. I didn't get last year's entry by Sam Ryder. But obviously many did and it came 2nd.
Let's not exaggerate political voting and minimise the reality of the sub standard British entries.
These changes would make it better imo - no that I am a big fan.
1. No automatic qualification for the Big 5
2. Max of 20 countries in Grand Final
3. Countries that don't make Grand Final don't vote
4. Either Jury vote or public vote not both
5. Cut the waffle
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Post by gary on May 14, 2023 13:03:11 GMT
The last time the UK had a really good song, it won. And the fact that we almost won last year proves that our string of bad results is not because ‘everyone hates us’. It’s the poor quality of our entries.
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Post by richard on May 14, 2023 13:26:10 GMT
The UK entries over the years after 1997, when Katrina and the Waves won, have been no worse - and often better, imo - than many songs from other countries that have done much better. But I admit it's a general memory thing on my part because very few ESC songs have appealed to me. And I actually do think it's a strange dislike of the UK underpinning all the absurdly low marks, time after time. The UK entry this year didn't strike me as very good but it certainly wasn't any worse than many/most songs in the contest. Yet it was deemed, according to the votes, second worst.
Because of Benny's reputation for putting a dampener on direct musical activities from the ABBA members, I can imagine him not being best pleased that many will expect the four of them to contribute in any non-trivial way to the ESC of 2024, in Sweden, ABBA's 50th Anniversary year.
"Oh no!" he might think. And the other three, aware of his reluctance, rolling their eyes. 🙄 😀
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Post by Alan on May 14, 2023 14:18:41 GMT
The last time the UK had a really good song, it won. And the fact that we almost won last year proves that our string of bad results is not because ‘everyone hates us’. It’s the poor quality of our entries. I don’t think that’s true. I agree this year’s entry wasn’t that good compared to last year’s, but I also don’t think it deserved to come second to last. It does show that the UK has to do something truly exceptional to do well in this now though. I thought we might do OK this year purely on the grounds that we were hosting it, but that was probably a little naive of me. I only watched the first hour and a half of it. That was more than enough. |
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Post by gary on May 14, 2023 19:26:12 GMT
^
There may have been a few passable UK entries since 1997, but can you name one really good song that actually deserved to win (barring Soace Man)?
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Post by richard on May 14, 2023 20:10:19 GMT
^ There may have been a few passable UK entries since 1997, but can you name one really good song that actually deserved to win (barring Soace Man)? To be honest, Gary, no, I can't. And I think 'passable' is the appropriate word to describe many of the UK's entries - but also those of other nations. It's just that I feel the UK's passable entries have gotten far fewer votes than other nations' passable entries have over the last 25 years. But no doubt people who are interested in the ESC from other countries that haven't had much success in it think much the same! |
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Post by tagaytay on May 15, 2023 0:29:56 GMT
Because of Benny's reputation for putting a dampener on direct musical activities from the ABBA members, I can imagine him not being best pleased that many will expect the four of them to contribute in any non-trivial way to the ESC of 2024, in Sweden, ABBA's 50th Anniversary year. "Oh no!" he might think. And the other three, aware of his reluctance, rolling their eyes. 🙄 😀
I can imagine the organizers trying to think of ways to have ABBA do something for next years Eurovision other than a video clip of them wishing everybody good luck and success and peace on earth. And I can imagine the pressure and expectation on the ABBA members to put out something good if they agree. But the two women aren't really fond of the media attention anymore and would rather relax and do something else. As Benny said, its harder to tell the people to do something they don't like to do when theyre over 70.
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Post by HOMETIME on May 15, 2023 9:32:01 GMT
^ There may have been a few passable UK entries since 1997, but can you name one really good song that actually deserved to win (barring Soace Man)? To be honest, Gary, no, I can't. And I think 'passable' is the appropriate word to describe many of the UK's entries - but also those of other nations. It's just that I feel the UK's passable entries have gotten far fewer votes than other nations' passable entries have over the last 25 years. But no doubt people who are interested in the ESC from other countries that haven't had much success in it think much the same! Given how early the entries get released to the public, I think the charts are a reasonable barometer of what the songs' chances of success might be. And passable doesn't really cut it any more. If our national entries are not chiming with us, the punters, then the decision makers are probably not reading the room. Sweden takes the contest very seriously, with some of the also-rans becoming national hits too. I think Mae Muller's song was strong and deserved to score better than it did. Her performance was a little below par and seemed to lack the sass that elevated her video. I thought the French entry was robbed too. I can't help but LOL at the conspiracy theorists. I can't imagine that national juries would risk compromising themselves for the sake of an appearance by ABBA at the Eurovision next year. After last year's debacle with the juries, I reckon there'd be way too many people willing to sell the scandal to the papers. And it would be a very lucrative story if the reputation of a legendary band AND the institution of Eurovision itself were at stake. Bjorn's appearance on Saturday's show barely registered. Have people been discussing it here? (I haven't been around much myself, so I might have missed something). I thought he looked a little frail and pale. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 11:30:13 GMT
Here's a good article by Fraser Nelson on why the UK does badly. His first 3 reasons are key 1. No Song for Europe competion - the winner is chosen by people at the BBC 2. Automatic entry to the Grand Final - this clearly doesn't help 4 of the Big Five - Uk, Germany, France, Spain. Italy has done well in recent years. 3. They don't chart. Mae Muller only got to #30. Loreen was #1 in Sweden for quite a few weeks. A point picked up by Hometime. Yes, maybe the UK didn't deserve to have so many Bottom 3 places in more recent times but they were not deserving of that much better. I agree with Gary. If there's a decent song the UK has a chance. But there is a sense of complacency and entitlement and the UK thinks it can coast into the final with any old crap that hasn't been tested against rival songs from the UK, from other European countries or has public support as demonstrated by chart success. www.spectator.co.uk/article/nul-points-nous-why-the-uk-struggles-at-eurovision/ |
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Post by richard on May 15, 2023 14:48:16 GMT
I've got better uses of my time than to check back on a number of the UK's lowest-placed songs over the past 25 years, but I bet they wouldn't strike me as more "crap" - as Johnny describes some of them - than the vast majority of forgettable songs that have appeared in the ESC, from every nation, over the years - many of which no doubt got high marks. So, for me, the extremely low votes some of these UK entries have received are out of all proportion. I don't think it's got anything to do with a sense of entitlement, either. And nowadays I don't really care who wins - though of course I'd at like the UK to do better. But some of the voting absurdities, as I regard them, intrigue me. However, I acknowledge that that boils down to my musical tastes in the end. I also agree with Tony (HOMETIME) that's it's not about conspiracy. But could it partly be a kind of indifference to the songs of this or that nation, regardless of quality of song, I wonder. Is that possible? For example, I somehow feel Germany is not going to win it, no matter what song they enter - and not just because they came last this time! So they'll probably win next year!  |
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Post by HOMETIME on May 15, 2023 15:36:59 GMT
Maybe I'm naive, but I don't really buy the whole "political voting" thing. Sure, there are exceptional circumstances like the brutality against Ukraine: I'd have been disappointed in people if there hadn't been a collective wave of support for them. At times like this, even a seemingly meaningless vote for a song can say so much. But Eurovision audiences have overlooked other shady political behaviour over the years and voted for songs submitted by some dodgy regimes. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Fraser Nelson got it right in that Spectator article. And if he did, he accidentally underscored his own point by claiming Dana's 1970 win for the UK. That'll be news to Dana - and to Mary Hopkin, who came second for the UK that year with "Knock Knock, Who's There?" Dana won for Ireland and, while Fraser correctly illustrates the violent chaos in her native Derry, she represented and won for Ireland. There was massive sympathy for the Bosnian entry in 1993. The performers dodged gunfire as they ran across the tarmac to the plane taking them to Ireland and, while they got a form of heroes' welcome, they placed 16th on the scoreboard. I think Eurovision audiences are sometimes shamefully apolitical.
Block voting happens because people vote for the kinds of songs they hear in their charts. Bands and singers are often successful in culturally-similar neighbouring countries. I really don't think that politics makes any greater impact. For instance, if Brexit really is the cause of so much antipathy towards UK entrants, what excuse can be offered for the years 1999 to 2015? I think Nelson is right about the selection process. Ireland made it a closed shop for several years and it seemed to coincide with our plummeting success. They've made it a bit more open in recent years, but it's not like it was in the 70s, 80s, 90s, when there were heavily advertised calls for submissions. True, there were some shoo-in entries by well-connected types but there were occasions when unknown entities got to compete in the national finals.
I understand the argument that the competition is a waste of taxpayers' money. But Ireland is a great example of how brilliantly the tourism industry benefits from hosting the show. Four of our seven wins happened in the 90s - including the '92, '93, '94 hattrick. The national broadcaster sweated but there were sponsorpships and supports there. It was a boomtime for Ireland and a fair chunk of the economic success, national pride and cultural appreciation that drove that golden era for the country can be attributed to Eurovision.
Uhm... as ever, I have drifted to longwindedness and I think I've lost my train of thought. #SeniorMoment
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 16:14:01 GMT
Ireland used to take Eurovision seriously. But like the UK they haven't for some time. They even had Jedward ffs.
I liked that Dana song - much more so than her horrible socially conservative bigotted views. And no, being a "person of faith" does not excuse them.
I disagree with Hometime (!) the ESC should not be political. I am so glad Ukraine didn't benefit again.
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Post by HOMETIME on May 15, 2023 16:39:19 GMT
Controversial view and I don't care: Jedward's Lipstick was a terrific entry. Their second one was entirely meh.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 16:58:30 GMT
Jedward represented Ireland twice! And one year before that they had a tv puppet Dustin the Turkey. Like the UK, they weren't taking Eurovision seriously.
Ireland failed to qualify 8 times in the past 10 years.
My family background is Irish and I tended to notice the exchange of points between the two neighboouring countries. It wasn't quite Greece and Cyprus though
Some of my relatives didn't like Terry Wogan or now Graham Norton referring to the UK as "we" or "us". I think Terry was a National treasure in the UK not his native Ireland.
I would not have known Graham Norton was Irish. He certainly doesn't have a County Cork accent.
It's funny how the BBC Eurovision bosses in the UK chose Irishmen as their chief commentators. Usually their snide remarks were the best things about the programmes.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 18:31:56 GMT
The Irish winning songs in the 90s. Forgettable songs.
You're right about Ireland too. It went from basically being the Vatican Beer Garden - oppossed to divorce, abortion and contraception to a modern, liberal country which was one of the first to introduce gay marriages.
The realisation of paedophilia and locking up pregnant unmarried girls and women by the Church really turned peoole against the Church's teachings.
I think Terry and Graham are great commentators and if some people have issues with them - tough.
That Katerina and the Waves winning song was pretty average. Walking On Sunshine from the mid 80s was a tune.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 20:03:35 GMT
Eurovision Legend Leaderboard
1. ABBA
2. Johnny Logan
3. Loreen
4. Vicky Leandros
No dispute in this list, surely.
Top 10 Eurovision Legends?
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Post by HOMETIME on May 15, 2023 20:10:42 GMT
It has a lot of heart. On paper, I think it probably shouldn't work, but there's something lovely about it. It was written by the same guy that wrote "The Voice" - a song I never imagined would win. I just don't get it. But that's the thing about Eurovision: everyone has their favourites and without differing points of view, the parties wouldn't be half as much fun.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 5:43:58 GMT
I meant legend just in ESC terms...probably the wrong word.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 7:17:26 GMT
Both Mae Muller and Loreen in the Chart Update Top 10 at 6 and 9 respectively.
I expect Mae Muller to drop drastically by Friday's Official Chart.
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Post by voyage2 on May 16, 2023 7:29:45 GMT
Celine Dion!?
How do we feel about ABBA and Eurovision next year? Personally, I don't think ABBA should appear. I don't mind them being celebrated, maybe show The Museum and Loreen could sing Dancing Queen while the votes are being counted!!? But no personal appearance/performance as a group. Perhaps Bjorn can appear with a quick message. They could however announce a new single the week after!! The second one after this years new single of course ha ha!! I can dream!
(not a new member, was abbaforever4 / alib, had problems with computer)!
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Post by foreverfan on May 16, 2023 7:52:22 GMT
^^welcome back..technology !!
Mixed feelings about Sweden 2024, and the rumours will be rife.
I guess it will be impossible not to at least reference them, as for an appearance I would say that's not out of the question, a performance probably very unlikely.
Would a new track cut it on the night if only a video.
I can't imagine Sweden not putting on a huge spectacular show, and ABBA will be there in some form , Bjorn a presenter ? As before we will see and a year can be a long time,
Johnny, your correct these mid week' charts are pretty meaningless really, I'll be surprised if no more than 3 will be in the top 75 by the end of the week. U.K. And Sweden, possibly top 20 and Finland, unless translated into English will not feature to high, for all to plummet probably out of the chart the following week.
Which then beggars the question especially in the UK , is it all worth it as it doesn't equate into stardom even Sam Ryder , didn't get to number 1 with Space Man and hasn't really. Done anything chart wise since.
For me it's a fun nights watching, but has very little relevance to popular music...
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Post by voyage2 on May 16, 2023 8:14:34 GMT
^^Thank you! Yes indeed!
I didn't watch all the contest, but what I did see I would say 85% was mediocre - not sure what can be done to improve it. The actual show was very well put together though, lighting etc good. Maybe that's the problem, the 'show' has taken over from the actual song quality? That seems to be the way of the world these days, quantity not quality unfortunately.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2023 6:47:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2023 10:19:22 GMT
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