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Post by gamleman on Jul 29, 2020 10:53:38 GMT
Apart from my comments about this boxset being relatively cheaply priced, I also wonder how lucrative these limited-edition releases can really be for the record company. How much money can they expect to make from a release of perhaps only 4000 copies of a product, when their profit from each copy is probably only a few pounds or a few tens of pounds. It doesn't seem to amount to a great deal by record company standards, and they would need to take their design and manufacture costs out of this. It's not like in the old days when they could expect to sell several million copies (worldwide) of each ABBA release.
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Post by gazman on Jul 29, 2020 14:13:38 GMT
I would suspect that the LP covers are perhaps identical to the ones from either the previous LP box-sets, or to the regular 180gram LPs currently available individually.
Is anyone in a position to compare them? I 'only' have back-vinyl box-set, and I was never interested in the coloured vinyl ones...
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Post by chron on Jul 29, 2020 14:40:14 GMT
[...] also wonder how lucrative these limited-edition releases can really be for the record company. How much money can they expect to make from a release of perhaps only 4000 copies of a product, when their profit from each copy is probably only a few pounds or a few tens of pounds. It doesn't seem to amount to a great deal by record company standards, and they would need to take their design and manufacture costs out of this. It's not like in the old days when they could expect to sell several million copies (worldwide) of each ABBA release. They might do them to offset some relatively small expense (that's the office tea-bags and coffee sorted for the year!), since the collector fanatics - if they can get in before the eBay chisellers - can be absolutely solidly relied upon to stump up the subs. Doing a novelty twist on the externals when the moulds and graphic templates and whatnot remain the same wouldn't be especially costly, you'd think (churning dyes or scattering metallic hundreds-and-thousands or whatever into molten vinyl is surely relatively easy, quick and cheap to do) and bingo, you know that your hand is going to be practically bitten off by the same crackers loyal group when you dangle these latest versions of the same old versions in front of them (the serious question of whether or not this is taking advantage of some who are genuinely grappling with some form of OCD hangs in the air). |
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Post by jj on Jul 29, 2020 15:25:40 GMT
(the serious question of whether or not this is taking advantage of some who are genuinely grappling with some form of OCD hangs in the air).
I think it's obvious that every collector suffers from OCD to a greater or lesser degree. OCD naturally goes with the territory. There's nothing terribly wrong with people who have it, either. Whether it's stamps, coins, or re-issued ABBA box-sets, collectors are part of what makes humanity the zany and quirky mix that it is. I think most collectors stop long before they get to the point where they've become hoarders. Hoarding is irrational, neurotic behaviour.
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Post by gamleman on Jul 29, 2020 15:54:20 GMT
I think of OCD as an obsession in habit - I've never really thought of a collector as having OCD before, but I suppose it is an obsession. I guess I'm a little OCD in various ways but I'm trying to get away from buying collector's items to store in a cupboard and that will never again see the light of day until I die and someone discovers them. I've realised that I'd only be buying and storing things for someone else to potentially benefit from financially when I've gone. So, when I receive my boxset, I will open it and play the records, and enjoy it.
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Post by chron on Jul 29, 2020 17:29:00 GMT
I think it's obvious that every collector suffers from OCD to a greater or lesser degree. OCD naturally goes with the territory. There's nothing terribly wrong with people who have it, either. The ABBA reissue programme seems to exploit the tendency to an uncomfortable degree, though. Also, producing the vinyl seems needless if the discs aren't going to be broken out and put on a turntable (as some here have said they won't be). Why not focus on doing reprints of the artwork/packaging alone in some distinctive way instead, and forgo the disc pressing? I doubt their manufacture has much of an impact environmentally, but what a pointless exercise if they're never going to be used as intended. |
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Post by Michal on Jul 29, 2020 19:01:57 GMT
Well, today I had more time to scrutinize the quality of the artwork. I've taken out my copies of this new box, The Vinyl Collection box released in 2010, the half-speed mastered albums and the original Polar issue of Ring Ring (the only original Polar album I have so far). Obviously the original Polar release looks the best even after all these years. To my great delight, the copy from The Vinyl Collection comes second and it's very very close to the original. Slightly more blurry but the colours are basically the same. The half-speed master of that album is still far away. The copy from the recent boxset is the worst of them - more blurry, more grainy and the hue of the colours is different - more red. All the other albums have basically the same problem (too red). The half-speed mastered version of Arrival is better than the one from the coloured-vinyl box, has more detail, is less blurry. The half-speed mastered version of Voulez-Vous is very pale compared with both The Vinyl Collection and The Studio Albums, so in this case I would say the half-speed one is the worst. All of the albums from The Vinyl Collection look much better than the ones from The Studio Albums...
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Post by josef on Jul 29, 2020 19:08:22 GMT
It's certainly interesting hearing all the different opinions. I have the Thank You For The Music box set and the box set of all the albums on cd but I've long since given up collecting stuff. I just don't see the point anymore. It's out of order that the artwork isn't sharp and top notch. How lazy not to get the very best and make the images as pristine as possible. How shoddy. Then to hear that the coloured vinyl isnt up to scratch. I'm happy if someone's happy with their purchase but I just don't have that enthusiasm anymore (if I ever really did). I am all about hearing the music and seeing the occasionally new picture of the group members and how they're doing but I don't give a toss about new merchandise. I don't even play the cds or vinyl I have. It's all just packed away. Don't get me wrong, if ABBA do release the new songs on vinyl and cd I'd most likely buy them and a whole album, deffo. It might be the last we ever get.
I think the last stuff I bought were the various coloured cds of remixes Agnetha did, the deluxe editions and an ABBA The Album tin from ABBAWORLD at Earl's Court. That'll do me. It'd have to be summat really special for me to order the same music repackaged yet again.
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Post by Alan on Jul 29, 2020 19:46:28 GMT
Based on Michal ‘s most recent post, I’ve just put in a request to cancel my order. It might be too late but worth a try. I could just about forgive the fact that it was not up to the quality of the originals, but if the scans are worse than on previous modern vinyl reissues, that’s a deal breaker. I don’t own any of the previous vinyl boxes but the Ring Ring album I did get was a disappointment. The singles boxes are similarly disappointing but somehow easier to accept...those are just for anniversary releases and, as there are so many of them, easier to understand the reluctance to concentrate on scan quality. With the albums, there are just eight of them and the larger 12” format does make a difference. I don’t buy the idea that record companies don’t profit much from these. Vinyl is now one of the few ways that the music industry can profit from physical product. Back in the 80s you could buy a new vinyl album for about £5 whilst CDs retailed at £12. Now, it’s the reverse, and even more for vinyl. The suggestion that we should be grateful that each album in this box works out at less than £20 is naive. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Jul 30, 2020 10:36:16 GMT
I've just cancelled my Amazon.fr order. If Universal had been a bit more efficient in supplying their major retailers, I wouldn't have had time. Hey ho. My original vinyl will have to do.
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Post by Michal on Jul 30, 2020 15:01:35 GMT
I didn't mean to make anybody cancel their orders... Well, if you guys change your minds about this amazing box set, you can make an offer to me and I will consider it... The winner takes it all!  |
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Post by Alan on Jul 30, 2020 15:31:24 GMT
It certainly wasn’t just you, Michal ! The Amazon review was quite damning but HOMETIME discredited the reviewer, so I was waiting for someone on here to review it. I’m happy with my Epics. I’d take the blue sleeve for The Album over the white one any day! Someone mentioned that the Japanese should do something like this... it would certainly be much better quality. Their 2004 CD box using the UK album artwork remains one of my prized possessions. The quality was much better than either the 2005 CSR box or the 2008 The Albums one. Still scans, but reduced to that size wasn’t quite as noticeable. In any case, the scans had to be altered to remove any trace of Epic/CBS - a lot of care was taken on that. I’ve also got the 2008 vinyl re-issue of The Album using UK artwork. I never really wanted the white one, so cancelling this new box means I won’t have to! |
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Post by Michel on Jul 30, 2020 18:09:58 GMT
Their 2004 CD box using the UK album artwork remains one of my prized possessions. The quality was much better than either the 2005 CSR box or the 2008 The Albums one. Still scans, but reduced to that size wasn’t quite as noticeable. In any case, the scans had to be altered to remove any trace of Epic/CBS - a lot of care was taken on that. I have that CD box set as well and it is indeed stunning. Also, the only place where the UK sleeve for The Album was recreated for CD release. I agree that the quality of the sleeves in that box set is much, much better than the 2005 and 2008 CD box sets that were released in Europe and elsewhere. The Japanese box set also recreated the original inner sleeves (in great quality), which the 2005/2008 box sets did not. I also have the 8 mini LP SHM-CD reissues, replicating the Swedish first pressing LP design (Polar) and the attention to detail there is astounding as well. Even the red sticker stating 'Grand Prix of the 1974 Eurovision Song Contest' was recreated for the "Waterloo" album and included separately. Those Japanese mini LP's are real pieces of art. I have several by other artists as well (f.e. Donna Summer, Kate Bush, Bee Gees, Bob Marley, Marvin Gaye). All beautifully done. |
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Post by Alan on Jul 30, 2020 18:34:50 GMT
Of the ones you mention, I’ve got the Kate Bush one, Michal. As you say, the attention to detail is stunning. The lyrics on the inner sleeves remain readable even at that size. I’m guessing that it wasn’t done for ABBA’s CSR because it would have been blurry. The Albums was a cheap set so that one was forgiveable. I had a confirmation email through that my order has been returned to Amazon and they are processing a refund. I’m impressed with that, being as I’d already had the despatch notification. I hadn’t realised you could cancel it that late. Certainly saved me the job of sending it back. |
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Post by gamleman on Jul 30, 2020 19:46:56 GMT
I don’t buy the idea that record companies don’t profit much from these. Vinyl is now one of the few ways that the music industry can profit from physical product. Back in the 80s you could buy a new vinyl album for about £5 whilst CDs retailed at £12. Now, it’s the reverse, and even more for vinyl. The suggestion that we should be grateful that each album in this box works out at less than £20 is naive. I hope you're not under the impression that I was suggesting we ought to be grateful to the record company that this box-set works out so cheaply at under £20 per album (and am therefore naive). Look at how I started and ended my paragraph... "I am not defending the record company for poor-quality sleeves and ill-thoughtout vinyl colours..... I actually think that Universal have done this ABBA one on the cheap, which might explain why they haven't put in the expected effort for a 'luxury' product"My feeling is that they have probably cut corners to keep the price down without hitting their profits too hard. To be honest, I didn't think there was any real need for this release at this time, before they've even completed the 40th anniversary releases (which are also OTT with an album release, a singles box-set and individual picture-discs). This box-set would have been better saved for an anniversary, such as 2024. I suspect that the team responsible for ABBA releases are doing this to keep up interest in the group and to keep themselves occupied, rather than for the sake of big profits for the record company, as you can't make much money from a few thousand copies released here and there. It's much easier to make their big money from downloads, where you don't have to make or ship anything physical. |
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Post by Alan on Jul 31, 2020 16:57:13 GMT
Apologies, gamleman, I didn’t mean to cause any offence. However, I do think far more profit is made from these than you might think. Why else is vinyl so prolific now? In early 2019, I bought the first two (black vinyl) remastered boxed sets of Kate Bush albums on vinyl. I had waited a couple of months for prices to drop, admittedly, but I’ve just worked out that for seven albums (one of which was spread over two vinyl discs), I paid £16.39 each. The difference between these and ABBA was that the artwork was fully re-created and a comparison with the originals showed that the new ones did look much better in all aspects. Effort had gone into them, and the artwork was faultless. I think prices may even have fallen further since then, but it shows that to be able to drop them to that (which I think was almost by half) must mean a considerable profit is made on the original issue prices. It is possible that prices may drop on the ABBA one but it would have to be nearer to £10 per vinyl to be worth it. I disagree completely that it isn’t a luxury item - of course it is, no one needs this! To have put very little effort into it but still charge the £122 that I would have paid for it (15.25 per album) is, quite frankly, daylight robbery. My refund has been credited to my account today... the sense of relief I feel that I cancelled this in time is immense! |
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 1, 2020 12:26:46 GMT
I have no doubt that the big labels can mass produce vinyl at fairly low prices but I think they'd need to be shifting way more copies to get the unit price below a tenner. I had been loosely considering whether I could afford to release my own album on vinyl. While it's true that I would be looking at significantly* fewer copies than the limited run for this ABBA box, I'd still need to charge closer to €20 per copy to break even. The outer slipcase and its inner box would have production costs associated with them too and might even end up costing more to produce than a reproduced album sleeve.
If the effort to improve the sleeve reproduction, the vinyl colour selection and ancillary design (box/case, and maybe additional disc(s) for non-album singles and B-sides, and an LP-sized book of sleeve notes and photos) increased the price a bit, I think there would still be enough buyers to make such a re-issue package worthwhile. They could even bypass the sleeve-reproduction problems by releasing a box set of picture discs, with the sleeves/lyrics/notes commuted to an accompanying book.
I'm not sure if I'm starting to get annoyed at myself for cancelling my order....
* understatement of the millennium.
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Post by Michal on Aug 1, 2020 15:22:53 GMT
I haven't made my mind yet if I'm actually happy to have it or not... I bought it for approximately £113, including the shipping costs, which is not THAT much really. But still I regret that it wasn't done with more care and attention to detail.
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Post by Michal on Aug 1, 2020 15:24:19 GMT
By the way does anybody know how much "limited" the release is?
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Post by gamleman on Aug 1, 2020 15:30:41 GMT
I received my box-set today from Amazon France and have just been through the albums in terms of sleeves (comparing with the originals) and vinyl colours.
To be honest, the sleeves are not as bad as I had been expecting. The photo quality is more grainy than the originals, but some of the originals were grainy too, "Waterloo" being the worst. Colours are not always exactly the same, notably "Voulez-Vous" being a darker blue, although I have a vague holiday memory of the Spanish edition being a darker blue than the UK edition. The text has obviously been re-created, as it is very clear and often noticeably different in terms of font and positioning. This has got me confused - so they haven't actually just photocopied the original covers, which means they must have the photos without the text, possibly the originals. Would they need the negatives to reproduce the photos to the same standard?
Vinyl colours are largely down to taste, I suppose, but I do think some are obviously wrong. For example, I wouldn't have chosen yellow for "The Visitors", which is a very classy album in terms of music and cover design, and yellow doesn't suggest class (to me).
The next task will be to audition the albums, which will be a gradual effort. I am a bit of a vinyl enthusiast, so will be interested in how the sound quality compares with the originals and half-speed masters, although sound quality did differ between different pressings from different countries, anyway.
Alan, I absolutely agree that vinyl is generally being sold at inflated prices. When the 'vinyl revival' started and albums were being pressed in relatively small numbers, a new album may typically sell for £15-20. Then as vinyl took off, it suddenly became more like £20-£30 or more. I bought a few Beatles albums in HMV for £18 each and just a few months later some were £25 and the more popular ones were £36. I see that the £25 ones are now £30. I suppose it could be argued that as volumes increased, new investment in pressing plants was required, but I'm sure these price hikes were mostly for sheer profit. I should have been more precise in what I meant by Universal not making big profits from these limited ABBA release - I imagine they do indeed make a big profit per album, but I don't think they will make a lot of money in total (by their standards) from just a few thousand copies. Perhaps the ABBA team are given 'targets' to maintain a steady stream of releases.
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Post by Alan on Aug 1, 2020 17:43:33 GMT
That’s interesting about the text, gamleman . On modern ABBA vinyls I’ve seen (including the one I own) it’s the text that’s the dead giveaway. Some effort has gone into this then. I’m assuming the artwork without the text is available then. Allegedly, the negatives for the sleeve shots of Waterloo and The Visitors are missing (hence why the 2001-on CD issues use alternate shots). Although not confirmed, I’m assuming that means the others are all still available. Last year’s Summer Night City picture disc confirmed that the artwork is available in some form. For each of the four group shots, more of the original photos were visible than on the original sleeve (otherwise parts of each of their heads would have been cut off). However, sleeves of the coloured vinyl singles in the box still appeared to be scans. Yikes! Apologies, HOMETIME , if my own cancellation of this (and my posts) in any way influenced yours. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 1, 2020 17:50:00 GMT
Oh no worries on that front, Alan. I dithered before ordering in the first place and it was the sum total of everyone's feedback (including that of the reviewer I know) that changed my mind. In any event, if Gamleman got a delivery from Amazon.fr today, I suspect that I would not have been getting anything from them anyway: they would have had to dispatch my order several days ago. I imagine they might not have had the stock to send to me anyway.
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Post by gamleman on Aug 2, 2020 15:30:55 GMT
Have just played the "Ring Ring" album. The sound is fuller (more bass) than the original (mine is a 1976 re-issue) and the overall quality is good, although treble clarity is not what it could be. Some songs come out better than others, with "People Need Love", "He Is Your Brother" and "Ring Ring" (English version) fairing particularly well. However, the sound quality doesn't compare with that on the Deluxe CD, which was particularly good and quite a transformation compared with the original vinyl. The pressing itself is very good with minimal background noise and faults (although this doesn't mean the whole set will be without faults). I noticed a similar pattern on most of the solo coloured-vinyl releases - a fuller sound but perhaps less overall clarity than the originals. The exception was "Frida Ensam", which sounds superb on my white-vinyl copy, and "Something's Going On" is also a notable improvement over the original. I don't have the previous ABBA vinyl re-issues (except the half-speed masters), so these coloured pressing could be similar to those in quality.  |
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Post by Alan on Aug 2, 2020 16:23:09 GMT
I have to admit, gamleman , that red vinyl does look nice. Do you have any photos of comparisons with original sleeves? Particularly interested in the text placings. With the Kate Bush ones, that was something I checked for as proof they weren’t scans. Guessing you’re aware that for the ABBA album, the script text was placed differently over the photo on the UK version than it was on the Polar, so that one wouldn’t necessarily count. On the subject of the 1976 reissue of Ring Ring... someone on eBay is trying to sell one for £80. They claim it to be the original but the sleeve and label photos clearly show the 1976 date. My brother had that one but he nicely took it to the tip some years ago along with all his other vinyl, and never asked if I wanted any. The Japanese CD boxed set used the 1976 artwork though, so I have it via that. |
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Post by gamleman on Aug 2, 2020 19:13:46 GMT
I have to admit, gamleman , that red vinyl does look nice. Do you have any photos of comparisons with original sleeves? Particularly interested in the text placings. With the Kate Bush ones, that was something I checked for as proof they weren’t scans. Guessing you’re aware that for the ABBA album, the script text was placed differently over the photo on the UK version than it was on the Polar, so that one wouldn’t necessarily count. On the subject of the 1976 reissue of Ring Ring... someone on eBay is trying to sell one for £80. They claim it to be the original but the sleeve and label photos clearly show the 1976 date. My brother had that one but he nicely took it to the tip some years ago along with all his other vinyl, and never asked if I wanted any. The Japanese CD boxed set used the 1976 artwork though, so I have it via that. When I glanced through yesterday, I noticed that some of the text was slightly shifted but I wasn't aware of the difference for the UK edition of the "ABBA" album, which was one for which I noticed a shift on the back-cover. I have taken photos comparing the text on the back-covers of "Super Trouper" and "The Visitors" - in each case, the original Polar sleeve is on the left and the new one is on the right. You may be able to see that the text is slightly taller on the new edition of "The Visitors". The text generally seems too clear and clean to be a scan.   My copy of "Ring Ring" (which a Swedish pen-pal sent me) states 1976 on the back-cover. It has a glossy cover, which this latest re-issue doesn't have, of course. Pity your brother threw it away, especially with you being such a fan, but he could have got good money for it too. By the way, does your copy of Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" have the spelling mistake on the spine? |
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Post by The Rubber Ball Man on Aug 2, 2020 20:12:56 GMT
It’s also the same case for The Album title on the inner sleeve. While they reproduced the logo and titles nicely, the font that they’ve used here is different to the original. I think they used the same font from the outer box.   |
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Post by The Rubber Ball Man on Aug 2, 2020 20:32:40 GMT
Is anyone else finding the boxset awkward and difficult to handle?
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Post by Alan on Aug 2, 2020 21:49:21 GMT
Thanks for the comparison photos, The Rubber Ball Man and gamleman. Interesting to see the differences in the text. They seem to have made an effort to keep the placings as accurate as possible. Regarding “ABBA” - Photos from Discogs. The different text placings on the UK edition (all lines are slightly higher) might be to do with the yellow border they also added. The Union Songs line is deleted from the UK one as well (presumably a reference elsewhere to Bocu Music Ltd). I’m assuming the new issue in the box closely resembles the Polar text placings? (And yes, my remastered The Kick Inside does indeed have the spelling error on the spine).   |
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Post by Michal on Aug 3, 2020 15:13:13 GMT
It's baffling... if they went so far as to recreate the texts on the sleeves (which indeed it seems they did), then why on earth is the quality of the pictures so bad?!
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Post by chron on Aug 3, 2020 18:14:59 GMT
They've not done a particularly outstanding (read: extra-mile faithful) job of recreating the texts, for that matter. See 'The Visitors' comparison pics posted above by gamleman - as he already notes, the white track-list text is taller. It's also more condensed, compared to the older version. As a consequence perhaps, the tracking of white text of the new one is less generous (look how close the descending line of the 'p' in I Let The Music Speak gets to the top of the the 'O' in the 'One' of 'One Of Us on the new cover compared to the old; they're as good as touching). The new 'The Visitors' title text is done in a slightly thinner typeface, with the ends of the 's's quite noticeably not hooking around quite as far as they do on the old line. At any rate, the older one is done more pleasingly, and that's not said from any sort of older-always-equals-better position; that's comes from comparing and contrasting the two, and qualitatively weighing the differences.
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