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Post by richard on Aug 19, 2020 14:01:01 GMT
This topic is, to be honest, a repeat of the one I started on the old forum, but I'm hoping it holds some interest for fans today.
Any ABBA songs that no longer have the appeal for you that they used to; and any ABBA songs you like more now?
There is still so much I like about Super Trouper, the song and the recording. A beautiful, poignant vocal by Frida, especially in the bridge - and there's a little catch in her voice there; and I think the verse-melody is pretty as well. The backing vocals from the girls are terrific. But that chorus! I'm afraid I now find it a big irritation. It's the four-square oom-pah feel and, especially, it's those Su-papas, Tru-papas. As I've said elsewhere on this forum, it's like they're having a laugh at the expense of their own song. Well, I don't get the joke anymore!
Nowadays, I can't understand how I didn't appreciate I'm A Marionette in the past. In fact, I more or less ignored it. How could I? Beats me! Now, it's one my top ABBA favourites. For a start, it represents ABBA's wonderful musical versatility. This is the group that recorded the simpering I Am Just A Girl (?). No way! And yet it is.
It's the vocal power and desperate forboding energy of I'm A Marionette. The bass, guitar solo, the orchestral colour and depth! What a great song and recording!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2020 15:48:25 GMT
Richard, you have raised an interesting point. When I first bought a copy of the vinyl ST. I enjoyed listening to all the tracks. Nowadays, I just don't like ST ( the song ) anymore. I may upset many fans but I don't find it a classic ABBA song. Maybe because of that chorus as you have pointed out which I find irritating and very oompah oompah. Actually it sounds a bit dated and jaded to my ears. Likewise, DYMK is terrible and a waste of a song. Dream World could have replaced it in terms of single release. I don't care for MMM either. Frida's vocals are far too sinister for my liking. Others that have lost their appeal to me, UA ( very weak ) SILOC ( I find the song doesn't " go anywhere " with me ) TFTPO ( a let down only compensated by A&F's stunning backing vocals ). IHAD has also, slipped off my radar as I don't listen to it that much these days.
In respect of ABBA songs that I have re-discovered. Angeleyes is one that I listen to more these days. As I have already said Dream World is a delightful ditty. HHH is a bit of a rocker I must admit. The Piper because of its mystical charms. Arrival although an instrumental has a sorrowfully haunting quality to it. MMS for me is a bit of a hidden gem on the "Waterloo" album. I could elaborate further.
Of course I have a lot of faithful favourites which I love and always will. We have to respect the fact that all of us ABBA fans have different and conflicting views and tastes. I hope my comments regarding ST don't stir up too much chagrin.
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Post by richard on Aug 19, 2020 17:45:54 GMT
I used to get upset by negative comments from others about music I liked, Edmund. But now I accept, as you say, that that we've all got our views and preferences, and I can simply leave at that.
Interestingly, I think ST was in the top half of their best-selling singles in the UK back in the day, outselling TWTIA, if I'm not mistaken; so at least it was well-liked then. I think it has faded in appeal over the years, though. As I mentioned, it's the chorus which makes me less enamoured of the song than I used to be.
There was an ABBA fan on a forum some years ago who mentioned that he or she didn't care much for KMKY. I remember kind of admiring that person for having the confidence to express that opinion about a song usually regarded as a contender to being their finest achievement. I mention that because I simply don't share most ABBA fans' enthusiasm for DQ, fantastic though I think the vocals are.
I know, it says something (!?) about my tastes in music, but there it is.
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Post by Michal on Aug 19, 2020 20:25:40 GMT
Interesting thread... there must be such songs, Super Trouper could be a hot contender too in my case.
Actually the whole Super Trouper album has such a fate. I loved it when I heard it for the very first time. I remember I got it for Christmas and in early January I went to a skiing course for a week. I can clearly see myself skiing and not being able to get the songs out of my head. So catchy they were that I could hear them playing in my mind constantly. I felt like an addict, almost had abstination syndrome :-)
But it changed very quickly. In a few months I got tired of it (which hasn't happened with any other ABBA album) and I still find it a bit boring, even though I love the individual tracks - quite hard to explain...
I'm A Marionette is a very good example of the opposite - I appreciate the song much more now than I used to. Another one is Move On - I simply love the "reversed" harmonies, where Frida sings the upper part in the last verse. That's something I didnt't even notice when I listened to it for the first time...
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Post by Alan on Aug 19, 2020 22:53:32 GMT
It’s interesting reading the comments on Super Trouper (both song and album). On a previous forum I’d pretty much make any excuse to have a swipe at both, to the point where others got bored so I stopped. Naturally I agree with pretty much everything said about them above!
Eagle is one track that took me a while to appreciate. It was a track that I had to sit through to get to what I considered (at the time) to be much better ones. However, when Epic releases their Thank You For The Music compilation (1983), Eagle sat at the end of Side 1 and somehow that made a difference. I really started to love that closing instrumental, and that hasn’t changed to this day.
Years later (I think it was in between the Erasure EP and the release of ABBA Gold) I remember Eagle playing in HMV. Aside from the delight of hearing ABBA playing in a mainstream record shop, the fact it was a relatively obscure song coming over the loud speakers made it even better, and that closing instrumental gripped me again. I could probably listen to a good two or three minutes more of it, it’s always slightly disappointing when it fades out.
Other songs I changed my opinion of when I was old enough to understand what they were about. Hey Hey Helen is one. I recall some in-band of the moment in NME mentioning that song favourably in an interview. The female singer of the band loved the strength of the character singing the song.
Other songs such as The Winner Takes It All, though I did like at the time, I didn’t quite get. Again, as I got older I realised just how raw it is - that whole “does she kiss, like I used to kiss” verse and the heartbreaking “somewhere deep inside, you must know I miss you” line. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard as sad a song as that, and those lyrics can still surprise me today (did they really say that in a pop song?). It’s only over-familiarity with the song that hardens us to it.
Going back to Super Trouper (song), Richard makes a good point about the verses. There’s real loneliness there. What spoils it is the line “part of a success that never ends” - comes across as slightly arrogant. Also the “feeling like a number one” is a bit cheesy, especially as the single reached exactly that. It’s like Wham when they appeared on Top of The Pops with their “Number One” t-shirts in the same style as their usual “Choose Life” ones.
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Post by foreverfan on Aug 20, 2020 9:05:34 GMT
It depends on the mood of the moment, and a lot on over familiarity with some tracks..
Its rare for me these days to listen to pre 1975 .. so I’ll discount them, but a good idea for myself now is whether l’d “skip”
so to answer, it’s mainly Gold stuff as on radio, TV etc.. So I’d skip if I had control, Waterloo, I Have A Dream, and probably Super Trouper.. Waterloo, just over played for me.. IHAD.. a little to sweet .... and ST.. alas one of the few tracks that’s Dated.
That all said if I was in the kitchen , and they were on the radio, I’d listen....
Grown or always been there are Dancing Queen, I never tire of this track... but LAYOM, a great track, ironically the b-side Of ST.. The Piper, underrated..Hey Hey Helen.. fantastic I quite like the rockier tracks.. Hole in your Soul is another.....
Like most of us on this site, we love the music however it’s not about disliking so much but not listening to anymore..and then one day coming across that track that excites you again...
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Post by richard on Aug 20, 2020 11:25:18 GMT
I'm glad Hey Hey Helen has been mentioned. This is another of ABBA's songs whose qualities I simply ignored in the past. For me, now, it has a great feel.
And I should renew my acquaintance with My Mama Said. Despite being one of their early recordings, it always struck me as being one of their coolest-sounding songs - at least musically - but perhaps not lyrically. But if I like other aspects of a song, I'm not all that bothered about the words. An inadequate attitude, I admit.
But I am aware that in the best songs the words and music are 'all of a piece', each contributing to and enhancing the effect of the other, so I appreciate Alan highlighting some lyrics, too - the good and less so.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 11:31:13 GMT
It is interesting to read comments from other fans on their likes and dislikes in respect of ABBA tracks. We all have our favourites and least favourites. Even though I am not at all keen on ST I still love the other tracks on that album which is a bit strange I have to admit. I will confess that there was a period when TDBYC slipped off the radar with me. Albeit temporarily as I enjoy listening to it again. In my opinion one of ABBA's finest moments rubbing shoulders with other accomplished gems such as TWTIA, KMKY, SOS, DQ, TNOTG, E, IIWFTN, OOU, OLS, STMF, WAISAD to name but a few. " Move On " is, also, one of my favourites. I like the way the song dreamily floats along. It is the raw Nordic melancholy of certain ABBA tracks that I love the most. However the bouncy jubilant tracks also appeal as there appears an undercurrent of sadness within these songs too. I have learned to respect that some of my favourites may not necessarily appear on the lists of well-liked songs from other ABBA fans. " Variety is the spice of life ".
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Post by josef on Aug 21, 2020 15:58:31 GMT
There are quite a few. Two of the main ones are When All Is Said And Done and Lovers (Live A Little Longer). The former I just didn't 'get' (immaturity) and now I see it as one of the groups finest moments. Lovers took years tor me to switch on to. I used to think it was a racket and quite screechy. How wrong was I! It's divine. I can't get enough of it.
Some songs like Dancing Queen I always love but occasionally tire of until I hear something new or it just catches me by surprise in a supermarket or somewhere. Then I appreciate it's brilliance all over again. It's truly wonderful. The gift that keeps on giving.
I'll always love Super Trouper. It's beautiful. Frida's vocal is so affecting and the lyrics have real heartache and loneliness in them. I couldn't give a toss about any oompahs or su-pa-pas. So what? I like it. I detest musical snobbery. The same way some people criticise Chiquitita's outro- its a thing of beauty and expresses so much.
One song that's been ruined for me (but which I hope to redress) is Mamma Mia because of that bloody film(s). I need to revisit the song because I'm pretty sure I loved it at one point. Songs such as SOS amd KMKY are constants. There's nothing that could ever turn me off them.
I'm a Marionette. Well, where to begin? Back in the day it was just part of the mini-musical and I didn't give it much thought. But how menacing is that intro? I appreciate everything about it now and see it as a gem.
Yes, that 'cheese' accusation. Who doesn't like a bit of cheese? Maybe the lactose intolerant. Thank You For The Music is often cited and I must say there's been overplay but you cannot fault Agnetha's vocal. Like it or not, it's here to stay. So I defend it (just a little bit).
The Visitors is a song I've always liked and yet every time I listen to it I like it more and more. It just grows and grows. I never tire of it. Definitely in my top 10.
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Post by richard on Aug 21, 2020 17:39:38 GMT
I just want to point out that my comments about Super Trouper's chorus has nothing to do with musical snobbery, just musical dislike.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 13:02:06 GMT
I, too, would like to point out that my tastes are NOT because of musical snobbery far from it. I am not a snob. I don't like ST at all.
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Post by Alan on Aug 22, 2020 15:48:26 GMT
It’s just not a song I’ve ever cared much for, but nothing to do with snobbery. Perhaps you might explain what you meant, josef? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 16:33:10 GMT
I can remember a year ago how upset and saddened I was with Orf's distaste for TWTIA. It took me a while to get over and accept Orf's dislike. To award a song as great as TWTIA with nil points is a bit mean and unrealistic. After all it is Agnetha's favourite. Alan, I agree with your comments regarding TWTIA and just how raw and painful it is but yet beautiful at the same time. Josef, came to my rescue as I explained the hurt I felt after reading Orf's comments heightened my anxiety which has blighted my life especially at this present time. He told me to move on and not to be phased by comments from other fans. Also, at the time I confessed to my dislike of ST. It is down to personal taste and not music snobbery. I don't understand why Josef referred to us as snobs. There will always be an ABBA song that is loved, liked, respected or least liked. I can't help but feel a slight hint of animosity from Josef's remarks and am saddened by that.
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 24, 2020 17:48:00 GMT
I guess that's the beauty of loving a band for more than 40 years: you grow up with the songs. Some that appeal more in your youth, or were especially linked to the style of the day might fall (temporarily) by the wayside, others might reveal their beauty and depth with age.
Back in the day, I absolutely LOVED both Eagle and Move On - and, today, I really have to be in the mood for either one. I was no fan of I'm A Marionette back then, but think it is sublime these days. Similarly, I loved On And On And On at the time and felt it was a sure-fire single. I still like its zest, but would sooner reach for Elaine these days. In fact, that whole Super Trouper album was the pinnacle of perfection for me. I felt that every track would have stood a creditable chance as a single. But maybe I overplayed the album, because I fell out of love with songs fairly quickly. Happy New Year was the first casualty, and never really recovered. Our Last Summer was not a favourite in those early days but I really admire it now. As soon as LAYLOM became a single, I never really played side 2 of the album any more. It's still an album I seldom play.
I used to love What About Livingstone, but can bear to play it once a year now. I loved Hey Hey Helen from the get-go and still do. I think it is a very under-rated song. I like the vocal arrangement a lot. The interplay between the girls' voices is lovely - they both shine in different ways. I used to detest My Mama Said but really, really like its musicality these days (the lyrics are still dreadful, but the girls deliver as if their lives depended on it). I never had much regard for Gonna Sing You My Lovesong until about 15 years ago, when it "revealed" itself in so many ways: the classy arrangement, the sublimely warm and vulnerable vocal (such restraint!) puts it in the same headspace for me as Dusty Springfield's Breakfast In Bed.
The darker songs really retained their strength for me. The Visitors, Like An Angel Passing Through My Room, The Day Before You Came are still a very tight Top 3 for me. Sometimes LAAPTMR steals the top spot from TV, sometimes TDBYC. Should I Laugh Or Cry? shouldn't have such a firm hold on my affections as it does but, my gawd, Frida's vocal delivery AND the angelic call-and-repeat backing vocals AND that nagging guitar riff are irresistible. I love the lyrics too. If they had worked a little more on the transition from verse to chorus, they'd have had a cast iron classic.
The whole Voulez-Vous album has my heart. It's the ABBA album I play most from start to finish these days. Angeleyes used to be a mid-ranking song for me, but has become a real favourite. I put that down to the power of John Grant/The Czars' sublime cover. Even Does Your Mother Know? manages not to annoy me - how could it, when If It Wasn't For The Nights zooms straight in to put the world to rights? The Visitors album is close behind it, but I sometimes play my fantasy version where TDBYC and SILOC replace HOH and TFTPOO respectively. That said, I heard HOH on an "electro 80s" type compilation and was amazed at how it completely jumped out as utterly brilliant beside all of the cool, approved-by-the-Style-Police hits of yesteryear.
Finally, I never liked I Am Just A Girl. And that would be quite an understatement. It never sounded like ABBA to me. I still break out in a rash if it ever somehow pops up in the background. Ugh.
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Post by richard on Aug 24, 2020 18:32:50 GMT
Excellent post, Tony. I enjoyed reading it. The Visitors is my favourite ABBA song/track, but overall, Voulez-Vous is the album I enjoy listening to most, also.
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Post by Alan on Aug 24, 2020 21:16:52 GMT
On the subject of I Am Just A Girl...
It was doing reasonably OK (despite those lyrics) until I heard the abomination that is Jag Är Blott En Man, which turned up on the Ring Ring deluxe. Laugh your way through a song indeed. Whoever devised that deluxe tracklisting wants shooting.
(Oh, was it Carl Magnus Palm?)
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Post by gary on Aug 26, 2020 5:36:20 GMT
On the subject of I Am Just A Girl... It was doing reasonably OK (despite those lyrics) until I heard the abomination that is Jag Är Blott En Man, which turned up on the Ring Ring deluxe. Laugh your way through a song indeed. Whoever devised that deluxe tracklisting wants shooting. (Oh, was it Carl Magnus Palm?) Oh dear, that is awful. I don’t think I had ever heard that before. I Am Just A Girl is already my least favourite ABBA song, but that version must be the worst thing ever to turn up on an ABBA record. |
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Post by gamleman on Aug 26, 2020 20:00:43 GMT
I felt that to include bonus tracks not sung by ABBA (or any member) on the Deluxe edition of "Ring Ring" was really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I actually like ABBA's own "I Am Just A Girl" but I was familiar with another Swedish version called "Kalla't va du vill" by Family Four before I heard ABBA's version or the Jarl Kulle version. The Family Four version is not too different from ABBA's and I find it quite beautiful. It has a similar backing track - I don't know whether B&B produced it (I can't find any production info on the web). By the way, do we know whether A&F did the backing vocals for Jag Är Blott En Man? On the subject of this thread, my opinions of ABBA songs haven't really changed much over the years. There are some songs that I like, such as "Super Trouper", but don't like to hear them too often in a short space of time. I've always considered "Man In The Middle" to be one of ABBA's worst songs but when I hear it now there is a certain nostalgic charm to it, as it has a sound very much rooted in the mid-70s. I'd say that "Like An Angel Passing Through My Room" has become a particularly outstanding track as I've got older  |
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Post by richard on Aug 27, 2020 11:21:40 GMT
I also regard highly Like An Angel Passing Through My Room, apart from a couple of niggling reservations.
I used to like the clock, but now, sometimes, I find the ticking rather obtrusive. I feel a softer, slower, tick-tock would have been better. And I think the music-box effect is overplaying its hand a bit.
However, I consider the song to have some of Bjorn's best lyics: "All the world outside subdued"; "Dying embers warm my face"; "Love was one prolonged goodbye". And I find Frida's vocal perfect for the song: warm, intimate, resigned. I picture the protagonist as a rather attractive middle-aged woman who has missed out on love, who perhaps knows she is not long for this world.
For me, very sad and moving - occasionally, even hard to listen to for these reasons.
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Post by Zeebee on Aug 27, 2020 17:12:13 GMT
After seeing Alan's post, I found the song on YouTube. I don't like Jarl Kulle's vocal performance, but otherwise it doesn't sound bad. |
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Post by HOMETIME on Aug 27, 2020 19:24:22 GMT
I also regard highly Like An Angel Passing Through My Room, apart from a couple of niggling reservations. I used to like the clock, but now, sometimes, I find the ticking rather obtrusive. I feel a softer, slower, tick-tock would have been better. And I think the music-box effect is overplaying its hand a bit. However, I consider the song to have some of Bjorn's best lyics: "All the world outside subdued"; "Dying embers warm my face"; "Love was one prolonged goodbye". And I find Frida's vocal perfect for the song: warm, intimate, resigned. I picture the protagonist as a rather attractive middle-aged woman who has missed out on love, who perhaps knows she is not long for this world. For me, very sad and moving - occasionally, even hard to listen to for these reasons. That line "love was one prolonged goodbye" is just heartbreaking. I know that WAISAD is the ostensible Benny And Frida Divorce Song, but I can't help thinking that this song speaks far more eloquently about Frida's devastation at the time. The prettiness of the melody with those words and that performance is almost... twisted. It's like biting into a gorgeously decorated chocolate and finding something unexpected and bitter inside. The image I get from the lyrics is of someone sitting by the fire burning old photos. The observation of her not being long for this world is interesting, because I remember someone once saying that the lyric could almost be read as a suicide note. Bjorn had become such a great lyricist by then. Hard to believe this is from the same guy who wrote the words for King Kong Song. |
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Post by Alan on Aug 27, 2020 23:08:12 GMT
As the last song on the final ABBA album, Like an Angel Passing Through My Room really should be one of the most important songs in ABBA’s catalogue, but sadly they spoilt that by then releasing the very average (to be polite) Under Attack, one absolute turkey (You Owe Me One), a just-about-OK b-side (Cassandra) and one near-classic (The Day Before You Came). None of them truly came up to the standard of most of what was on The Visitors.
And then it was spoilt further by adding the above tracks as bonus cuts to said album...
Taking this topic further, I’d say The Visitors is the album I’ve changed my opinion about most in the last 39 years. At age 10 at the time of release, most of it went right over my head. I was happy with Arrival, The Album and Voulez-Vous, there was much to enjoy on those three. The last two albums I still liked, but didn’t hold in the same regard. Super Trouper has largely dropped like a lead balloon in my affections (from its already middling status), but The Visitors has risen far higher. I’d still put Arrival and The Album as the two greatest ABBA albums, but The Visitors is definitely the most adult and the most interesting.
From the sublime chorus backing vocals in Two For The Price of One to the perfect combination of A-F vocals in I Let The Music Speak (Agnetha swooping in with “From my shallow sleep the sounds awake me), this album has it all. The only song on it that I think the opposite of these days is Head Over Heels (back then, my favourite track, the obvious second single, but now the worst thing on it), but the others have grown on and with me over the decades.
As some inkie music paper (NME, Melody Maker Oe Sounds, I cant remember which) put it in the 1990s, The Visitors was a glorious sunset. Just a pity they had to knock out some sub-standard offerings in the nocturnal hours...
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